Model 19 and Heathkit AS-101 (similar to Valencia)

**Gerald DiMauro** · December 1st, 2003, 03:24 AM

Hello to everyone!
I just want to share this with the board and hear what others think about it. This past May I bought a beautiful set of Model 19's. I hadn't had Altec speakers since I moved out of my father's house and got married in 1977. My father has Heathkit AS 101's which he bought new in 1970. These consist of 416-A's with green 811's and Heathkit's own 800hz crossover. The size of their cabinets is identical to the Valencia. The Valencia uses a 416-Z instead of the 416-A with the same horn and of course Altec's 800hz crossover. I cut my teeth on those AS-101's and measured everything else I had ever heard against them. For me they were the standard to be measured against when comparing HiFi speakers. When I originally bought the 19's in May I was ecstatic. I was moved to tears the first time I played them in my living room. It was a wonderful honeymoon. As weeks went by and I was playing my old stuff that I had "become one with" years ago, I felt like something was missing from the music. I could not put my finger on it but there was definitely something missing. And since my loving wife had allowed me not only to purchase them but to keep these monsters in our living room I certainly couldn't let her know my feelings about them. So I posted topics on this board and received a lot of helpful info from many of you to whom I am very grateful, especially Jim Easley a man I admire and respect for his professionalism, knowledge, and courtesy. I've been wanting to try the "Super Crossover" but I understand that it's just not ready yet. I know it will be soon. I was going to go the way of bi-amping and using digital crossovers but the models I needed were much too expensive for me at this time. I even bought 800hz crossovers for the 19's but never did anything with them. To cut to the chase, this weekend I bought a pair of AS-101's. I set them up in my living room right next to my 19's. I put on an old track and it was instant nirvana. I'm telling you that I was again moved to tears but this time I had the entire sound I was starving for. I simply could not believe it. Here was the clear clean full in your face sound I was craving but not quite getting with my 19's. Don't get me wrong! The AS-101's can't touch the 19's bass wise. No comparison. The 19's are much fuller. But the AS-101's (Valencia's) have what I need. I believe it's the 800hz instead of the 1200hz crossover and the difference in phase due to the mounting of the 811 with respect to the LF driver. I'm wondering if the little bit that the 811 is mounted more forward than on the Valencia is part of the problem. I mean the way the horn sticks out through the cabinet past the plane of the 416 compared to the Valencia. I'm no engineering expert and I certainly couldn't hold a candle to MOST of you guys out there technically but I do know sound and the 19's sound SLIGHTLY out of phase to me. If you do a side by side comparison you can hear a portion of the frequency being reproduced as if it was being fed through a wah wah pedal with the pedal at minimum setting. Not an exagerated phase difference but ever so slight. With the 101's I've got that fresh snap and punch although with less bass. It's as if I was reunited with a long lost friend that I hadn't seen in years. The 19's are 98% and the 101's (Valencia's) are 100%. The 19's are real close but not quite there but the 101's are there. I'm going to keep the 101's as my main set. Do you think I should hold onto my 19's until the "Super Crossover" arrives and test that out? Thank you all for indulging me and I look forward to any reponses.
Sincerely,
Gerald

**thevott** · December 6th, 2003, 12:11 AM

Well, this is probably sacrelige but, at the risk of getting tared and feathered by all the Model Nineteen users that are reading this, I like the 800Hz crossover better too. The problem with the Heathkit crossover though is the L-pads burn out too easy. New big L-pad cures this or go to the quality Altec N800. Anyway, the Model 19 is clearly superior to boomy little Valencia in low frequency performance. You ought to try those 800Hz networks you bought and see if it does the trick for you. Personally, I like to push my 802s all the way down to 500Hz, bolted to 511B's of course.
thevott

**Gerald DiMauro** · December 6th, 2003, 03:26 AM

Hi thevott,
I've had other people tell me the same things about the Heathkit crossovers too. I am going to upgrade them like you said. I intend to try the 800hz units on the 19's too although Todd White doesn't think this is a good idea. I know what you mean about the 511's. I love them too. I used to have A7's many years ago when I was playing in bands. After I stopped gigging I used them with a tube amp for recording on a Teac A3340S 4 channel recorder. Believe it or not we mixed down on those vott. They sounded outrageous. It was the 511's. Thanks for your input and good luck to you!
Gerald

**Gerald DiMauro** · December 10th, 2003, 01:47 AM

Hi Robert,
Thanks for your response. Interesting that you're satisfied with the 416-8C's. This supports what Todd White says about there not being a difference between Alnico and ceramic. Cool. The bi-amping is the one thing I've yet to try. That Rane you're using really makes the difference, eh? I guess I owe it to myself to try it next. Thanks again for the encouragement and good luck with you're wife. :-)

Gerald

**goodshiplolliepop** · December 10th, 2003, 04:53 AM

I have never heard the 19's so I cannot compare them to the Valencia's.

I had a new pair of Valencia's in 1973 that I had to let go of in college. I very much relate to your always compairing everything else to them.

A couple of years ago I bought a used pair of 70's Valencia's on ebay. The 416a's that came with them did not sound as good as I remembered. Perhaps they needed to be remagnitized? I replaced them with 416 8c's and have been satisfied. I discovered the 806's did not have original Altec diaphrams. Rather than replacing the diaphrams and having the drivers remagnitized I replaced them with 902 8bs.

I am now biamping using a Marantz 1152DC for base, a Marantz 1060 for highs with a Rane AC22 electronic crossover. I tried a couple of other electronic crossover's but the delay cicuit on the Rane made the difference. I have tried crossing at both 800 and 1200 and prefer 800. People have said the orignial passive Valencia crossovers were really closer to 900? I am using a subwoofer for 45hz and below for most but not all of my music.

I was also unhappy with the lack of resolution and warmth in my cd's, but I hated the thought of going back to records...I never liked snap crackle pop and my album collection was long gone. So I bought a SACD player and was surprised and pleased to discover that not only do the SACD's sound great, but the sound from my regular cd's has been in most cases improved.

Now if only my wife would let me have them in the living room...

Robert

**armandh** · December 18th, 2003, 02:11 PM

caps age,values change, crossover caps are no different. I am ready to go bi-amp as nothing else seems to be just right, or at least bring out the connections and do an external X-over so that it is easier to try different values.

**Todd W. White** · December 19th, 2003, 04:47 AM

Older Guy is right -

What has obviously happened to your Model 19's is that the components have changed values. This happens due to age, but can also be the result of heavy use/abuse by the previous owner(s).

The Valencia IS a wonderful sounding speaker, but, a properly operating Model 19 is incomparable...

**stereohead** · November 25th, 2010, 10:30 AM

My oldest brother has a pair of the heathkit as-101 and wants to sell them even though they still sound and look GREAT.Times are very hard so they have to go.
He has both of the heathkit manuals for installing the components.
Is there a value on these or a better place to list them besides ebay which takes too much in fee's for the small sellers.Someone emailed me and said he could get around
$1,000.00 for the pair since they are not many left in very gooood shape. Y-N ?
Best to list them as heathkit or heathkit/altec-lansing?
They have not had much use in all the years at all yet...still sound wonderful !
Thanks.
1st posting so i need to figure out which area is better to put this in,i came across this posting so i started here.

**mekr** · November 25th, 2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by stereohead

My oldest brother has a pair of the heathkit as-101 and wants to sell them even though they still sound and look GREAT.Times are very hard so they have to go.
He has both of the heathkit manuals for installing the components.
Is there a value on these or a better place to list them besides ebay which takes too much in fee's for the small sellers.Someone emailed me and said he could get around
$1,000.00 for the pair since they are not many left in very gooood shape. Y-N ?
Best to list them as heathkit or heathkit/altec-lansing?
They have not had much use in all the years at all yet...still sound wonderful !
Thanks.
1st posting so i need to figure out which area is better to put this in,i came across this posting so i started here.

what are expecting of Heathkit ,if we can workout something on price and can you post the pictures

**Altec Best** · November 25th, 2010, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by stereohead

1st posting so i need to figure out which area is better to put this in,i came across this posting so i started here.

This is a start !

The Altec User's Board Classifieds - Hostboard Classifieds & Auctions Or Craigslist ! Where are you located ?And is shipping an option it will help folks to determine what it will cost them to get them to their home.

Happy Thanksgiving ! :welcome: to the board.

BTW: No Doubt that the original poster of this thread had bad crossovers No Question. A simple rebuild or a Zilchster Crossover should do the trick !! :lollipop: